Janine from Film in Revolt spoke to Claudia Bailey (award-winning writer & director) about her latest short film Appetite.
Janine: Appetite is a short film that explores the shame after sex that follows Bridget after a one-night stand. Why did you think this was an important topic to explore?
Claudia: I grew up in a culture in an all-girls high school where sex and intimacy was viewed as a race. Everyone was constantly worried about who lost their virginity first, how many people did you kiss on this night…it was such a strain. None of my friends in high school, me included, had relationships. The side of sex that is intimacy and…a beautiful way to connect with someone, we were missing out on. It was a weird coming-of-age experience that had us all competing. And when you actually went to have sex, it wasn’t actually nice at all. It was awkward and you were just doing it to tell your friends about it. In some ways, I think that’s what a lot of people’s first experience of sex is. As I then got older and entered my twenty’s, I realised things had changed. The culture changed when I left high school and went into the real world. Right now, we’re in a time where it’s sex positive, which is cool for so many people. But there’s this other side to it when you don’t really enjoy sex or you feel really insecure in it. It’s hard to talk about since all you want is to be a part of this great movement that is happening. When you’re a step behind that movement it feels really isolating even though everyone is going to have their own relationship to sex. I just used to feel shame so much because I wanted that beautiful intimacy in sex but I wasn’t going about it in a way that was honouring myself. I was still doing what I’d learnt in high school and having that same version of sex.
Janine: In some ways I feel like I can relate to that. I can’t think of many times when it’s felt comfortable to talk to people about this sort of thing. I mean, sex is already an awkward topic. Besides that, why do you think people don’t talk about those feelings of shame associated with sex?
Claudia: Admitting that you don’t like sex or that you had an awkward experience feels disempowering. It feels like something’s wrong with you. Sex and dating are fun to talk about with your friends. But if you’re like, ‘I had a weird experience and feel a bit icky about it,’ it’s not necessarily a fun conversation because it’s tied up in so much other stuff. Sex isn’t just sex. It’s got so much to do with who I am, the relationships I have and how I operate in different dynamics and all of that stuff. You can have those conversations but they’re big ones which means they’re not super accessible all of the time. Anything that has a lot of emotion in it can be tricky to talk about because it’s hard to articulate ourselves. There are a million thoughts rushing through our heads. Even though I’ve made multiple films about intimacy and awkward sex but I still don’t know what to say about it other than, ‘it’s valid’.
Janine: Yeah, it’s not a fun topic to bring up with friends. Was there anything you discovered in the process of making Appetite that you hadn’t known before? Anything that you hadn’t expected?
Claudia: Making any project, especially passion projects, always absolutely shakes you up and messes with your life because you’re so invested. You’re giving everything to this project and I’ve learned a million life lessons on every project that I’ve worked on. I’ve received some really beautiful feedback after the film or even just in making it. People who I don’t know very well, acquaintances, will reach out and say, ‘I haven’t been able to put my feelings into words but that’s it right there,’ or, ‘that’s so relatable. I’ve done that.’ I’ve learnt to own the awkwardness a bit because of that. It’s good to name it and say ‘that’s fine.’ There’s no point pretending otherwise because I’m never going to be smooth. I speak very fast sometimes and don’t know what I’m saying but I just own it now.
Janine: What do you want audiences to take from Appetite?
Claudia: I just want to hold space for people and allow them to hold a mirror up to themselves. But I also don’t really have a message. I’m not trying to tell people to face their problems. I would love to encourage everyone to look within and look after themselves. At the end of the day, I made Appetite because I know the isolating feeling of shame. Representing these experiences on screen is important because we’re all so influenced by it. It’s where we get all our notions of what romance and relationships are meant to look like. If you see something that shows that icky, gross feeling, maybe you’ll think, ‘I’m not suffering alone here,’ and that can make you feel validated. It’s a tough thing to talk about …it’s hard to say, ‘Hey, friend, I keep having flashbacks to this moment, over and over again.’ Everyone has different experiences, and that’s okay.
Janine: One hundred percent. Last thing I wanted to ask is what’s a film that made an impact on you in your youth? There’s probably so many but pick one and explain.
Claudia: I love that question! My favourite all-time film in the world is Frances Ha by Noah Baumbach. Look! I have it tattooed. This is actually quite a weird tattoo to have.
Claudia lifts up her sleeve to show me a tattoo on the inside of her upper left arm. The word ‘undateable’ is tattooed on her skin in black ink.
I don’t regret it but I work at a pub and a lot of old men are like, ‘I’d date you in a second.’ It is very much a choice, but I love that film. I watched it when I broke my legs and was recovering in a hospital in Spain. And I watched it nine times in a row because I was just overwhelmed by it. I’m obsessed with naturalism in cinema. The reason I love [Frances Ha] so much is because I’ve never seen such a nuanced, beautiful portrayal of a realistic friendship as the romance in the film. You know, it’s the idea that friendship can be the love of your life, and it’s just, it just works so well! The entire time Frances is thinking about Sophie at every single moment and I just have never really seen friendship be taken that seriously before. And in the future, I always want to make films about relationships and people. Frances Ha is just something special.
Janine: Yeah, I love that film. I can’t remember the quote, but when Frances is talking about catching eyes with your ‘person’ across the room and just feeling known is one of my favourite scenes.
Claudia: Oh, my favourite line is when Frances is talking to Sophie and says, ‘Sophie now if you see something funny on the way to the deli you’re going to tell Patch and not me.’ And I feel like that’s it, when you lose your person and they’ve got someone else. You lose that intimacy in your everyday life and it’s just heartbreaking and friendship can be heartbreaking. I would like for everyone to watch Frances Ha.
Janine: Was there anything else you wanted to say about ‘Appetite’?
Claudia: I think the main thing is that I don’t really have a ‘message’ for people. I’m not trying to tell them ‘this is what to do to not feel shame,’ or ‘you should do this.’ It’s just like, ‘Hey, I hope you’re okay. That’s valid. And I’ve been there.’ It’s a gentle reminder that they’re not alone.
Janine: I guess that is, in a way, a message. It’s just like saying, ‘I acknowledge your experience and you acknowledge mine. We’re all just trying our best and you are not alone.’
Claudia: Yeah, it’s just like this really beautiful quote that my friend Jaslyn and I like to say which is, ‘We’re all just walking each other home.’
Janine: Oh, that is a really lovely quote. I’m going to keep that. Thank you so much for this interview Claudia. I’m so excited for more people to watch ‘Appetite’ now that it’s available on Vimeo. Have an awesome night.
Claudia: Thank you as well! You too.