Boys in the Trees, is a haunting tale about abandoning childhood fantasies while coming to terms with buried demons. As love letter to the 90’s, the film at times seems a foreign depiction of teenage life. However on further inspection and talking to writer and director Nicolas Verso, it becomes apparent that the film is an honest and raw depiction of the trials of escaping the realm of childhood. With its epic soundtrack you are sure to be drawn into Verso’s retro world where possibilities are rife and stakes are high. We talked to director Nicholas Verso about his intentions as well as his opinions on contemporary film and music.
Interview by Arran and Meg
Meg: What are your main film inspirations for the making of Boys in the Trees?
I wouldn’t say one film but because I was growing up in the ‘80s and ‘90s and there were so many great coming-of-age films coming out around then. You had filmmakers like John Hughes who did The Breakfast Club and then there was Spielberg who did E.T. and then there was The Goonies, The Craft and Empire Records that were in the’90s. Those movies really influenced me. Those were the films I was growing up watching and loving. And so I really wanted to make films like that where kids could just step inside and connect with those characters.
Arran: Do you specifically like making films that are for young people about young people?
Yeah, at this moment I’m really passionate about it. I don’t think in Australia we’re making enough or even on a global scale I don’t think we’re being diverse enough. There is an attitude currently that teenagers only want to watch big blockbusters and comic book films, which I don’t agree with. I think they’re great and awesome films. I got excited watching Batman as a kid but that was when there was one coming out every five years and it was quite rare. Now, however, there’s three or four a year, it’s exhausting. It was great back then because you had that but then you would also have The Craft or The Breakfast Club or Ten Things I Hate About You where you would just have films where teenagers were just doing their thing. I just wasn’t seeing enough of that anymore and you see how incredibly successful a film like The Fault in Our Stars is and you realise that teenagers want to watch what other kids are up to.
Meg: With books as well, teenagers read YA novels they don’t read books from the adult genre very often and I feel it’s the same with movies that teenagers want more teen movies at the silver screen.
Yeah, exactly. I think we’re just living in a really strange time for young people because it’s all about franchises. It’s great, I love franchises but in the ‘80s and ‘90s there was just a lot more one-offs and they were quirky, strange little films.
Arran: Yeah, like Donnie Darko.
Yes and you’d connect with those and sure we’d love to see more of Donnie Darko but….
Meg: I think they released a sequel and it wasn’t good.
The filmmaker was very angry about that.
Arran: I think there’s also this need to capitalise on the market for films so that’s why there was a Donnie Darko sequel.
It’s why everything is based on a game or a book because people are like: “Oh, people have heard of that.” It’s hard to gain recognition or support from a new idea. Sometimes a one-off film is enough. And even though you want to spend more time with the characters sometimes it’s good not to.
All laugh
Arran: And sometimes their lives are really interesting cinematically at that point, when the movie is set.
Yeah, that’s it. It can be where they’ve got an interesting story to tell but three years later.
Arran: Yeah, they’re just living their lives.
It’s like with this film [Boys in the Trees], it’s set on Halloween ’97. This is the night that’s interesting.
Meg: Why did you choose for it to be set on Halloween?
I’ve always loved Halloween. I grew up watching Disney Halloween specials and watching Halloween horror films.
Arran: Did you celebrate it?
I always did. Even as a little kid I did but it sort of grew through my teen years and it’s even bigger now. I always loved celebrating it and getting dressed up. And there’s this idea that with a mask, you’re very liberated.
NV laughs
Arran: I noticed it was really interesting how you used the masks in the film. And I think they related to the characters as well. Could you explain the individual relation for each mask to the characters?
In many ways for me Romany’s mask is her makeup. It was very important for me that she take her makeup off for the second part of the film, so we see the real girl behind all of the attitude and what she does in the name for survival.
We’ve also got this thing about running with the wolves and that metaphor is throughout the film. Corey likes to think he’s a wolf, as some guys like to think they’re tougher than they really are.
NV Laughs
Arran: It’s sort of like fitting in and being a part of the “wolf pack”, right?
Exactly. He’s wearing that to try and fit in with “the pack” and he’s not really meant to be. Then there’s Jango [Justin Hollborrow] as the clown. For me, especially now with the creepy clown sightings there’s this strange phobia of clowns. Jango’s presence is slightly threatening within the film so it makes sense that he would have an image that would strike fear in your heart. You’re waiting for him to crack and do something bad.
With Jonah [Gulliver McGrath], he was a little more complicated. We were channelling things like E.T. and The Karate Kid and also Alice Cooper, the rocker who does great Halloween imagery.
Arran: Like when he was wearing his red hoodie?
Yeah. So I had that image in mind and then with his mask, I can’t say too much without giving away the ending but his mask is basically about the ending.
All laugh
Meg: It was interesting how his makeup started to disappear as the movie went on. I wasn’t quite sure when the change occurred but it was interesting.
It was really funny, actually, because there was a deleted scene where you saw him rubbing the makeup off. But because the movie is quite dense, in the middle of it, it slows down and I wanted it to feel like the middle of the night and how you get a bit tired. It was slowing down a bit too much, though.
There were a few things that got cut and that was one of them. There was also this scene where Romany sang this song and that got cut.
Arran: And so you’ve been doing a lot of interviews recently, right? What’s a question you’d like to be asked but no one ever does?
I’m not sure… Everyone’s asking such different questions. I’m not sure, to be honest. I’m interested in hearing other people’s takes and hearing what they’re curious about. I guess it’s a film that sparks interest in people because there’s a lot in it.
Arran: Actually, what would you say are the main themes in the movie?
It’s really funny because a lot of people bring up the bullying and it’s not something that I really thought about. I guess that’s in there, of course, but…
Arran: I thought that there was that aspect of the “identity crisis”.
For me what I was really interested in was that Halloween fell on the last day of high school, for me. It often does. It will fall around that time. I found that interesting because when you finish high school it’s the death of childhood and Halloween is all about celebrating death. I wanted to make a film about the boys where this was their last chance to be boys before they become men. I think we’re in an interesting moment now because there’s a lot of problems to do with men.
NV laughs
Arran: Like Meninists and that kind of thing, or…?
Well, to do with masculinity and also just, you know… Trump. Or when you look at budgie smugglers there’s just these men behaving badly and it seems as though there are quite a few people that are having a crisis in masculinity. I think that there’s a real clinging to the “old way” and South Park’s new season is capturing that beautifully. Men are just so caught up in nostalgia about how things once were.
Meg: It’s like with “Make America great again” it’s like when is this magical time you speak of?
Yeah! Like was it in the ‘50s when everyone was getting over WW2?
Arran: Yeah, it’s a nostalgia for the past.
But I think there’s a really good new wave coming especially in America. You see shows now like Master of Nine and there are new voices and new faces. In the ‘90s I felt like we were closer then than we are now.
Arran: The ‘90s was definitely like a “halcyon” era where everything was going well in the western world for a time, but then 9/11 happened and other traumatic world events.
I think 9/11 gave conservatives an excuse to elbow their way in and go back to their old ways. I look at the ‘90s and there were films like Thelma and Louise that had these really cool, tough women who did their thing. Music-wise there was also all these amazing role models like Courtney Love and Tori Amos and Bjork. I don’t see a new generation of them. I mean there’s Beyonce and Taylor Swift who are great and lovely but….
Arran: I mean, they’re not really alternative as well.
No, exactly. They’re a bit too perfect to be relatable. Whereas Courtney Love was always falling over and there were things that made her really cool and relatable because she was so honest and raw, she doesn’t hide things.
Arran: Well, there’s Adele who’s known for being real.
Yeah, and she’s great for that. Unsurprisingly, she’s a huge success. People see this woman who doesn’t conform to how women are meant to be in terms of size or whatever it is and she’s just really talented and really honest with her story. I think that’s really cool and I’d like to see more of that or role models like her out there in the world of people.
Especially in this film it’s very male heavy. I don’t pass the Bechdel test at all in this film. But for me it was really important that Romany the main female character was the smartest person in this film. She’s smart and she’s got a plan that has nothing to do with men, it’s nothing to do with the boys. She’s got her own dreams and goals and no one should get in the way of them. It’s one of the main reasons I had the epilogue there. It’s a very divisive part of the film but for me it was really important for people to see that she’s doing her thing and she isn’t just someone’s love interest. She had a dream and she’s living it. To me that’s really important that people see that.
Arran: I really liked that because it was very realistic. It wasn’t necessarily the most romantic portrayal but they still loved each other and it was real.
Yeah, that’s it. It’s like when she invites him to Canada and then immediately un-invites him because if he’s there she might not be able to get the best shot out of her life. To me that was very important because often girls aren’t given that chance to just be independent. They’re not really told “No, actually, you can just do things. You don’t have to rely on anyone else, you can make it happen on your own.”
There’s also really subtle things that people probably don’t pick up on that was important for us in the making of the film. Toby and I wanted to make it for the balcony scene that he’s way more into it than she is.
All laugh
Normally it’s the other way around, normally it’s the girl. Usually she’s looking all dreamy at the guy because she wants him so badly. Instead, Romany’s like: “whatever”.
All laugh
She wants it to happen but her whole self-worth isn’t based upon it. To me that’s really crucial.
Arran: That’s really cool because I often find that in real life the guys are the ones making the big romantic gestures. And that’s something that isn’t usually depicted in film.
Well, also Corey’s been such a dick so he has to make up for it. She deserves that romantic gesture.
Meg: I was also wondering about the music because we really loved it. How did that come about? What influenced your choices?
Well I’ve always been hugely into music. Growing up in the ‘90s there was so much diversity in music and there were so many great female rock artists and what was on the radio was broad in general. One of the scenes in the film was when they were walking down the street and that song used to be played on the radio. Can you imagine that song being played on the radio station now? It wouldn’t happen, there was just so much diversity with what you could hear. I really wanted to channel that. Over in Melbourne I run a ‘90s night and I DJ that. It’s a young crowd of about 18-21 and they love the ‘90s even though they weren’t really around for it. So it’s fun watching them get into what I grew up to as well.
Like, if I’m going to write something I tend to make a playlist first. It’s about how the film should feel and so these were the songs that felt right to me and like The Beautiful People by Marilyn Manson was always in the script.
It’s meant to be this big screen writing no no but I wanted the songs and I put them in the script so people would know I want them instead of some hypothetical ‘90s song. It’s really important that I kept it specific so it was great. Originally we had more but we ran out of money.
NV laughs
Arran: What sort of songs were you thinking of using as well?
Well one of them was really funny and I got to meet the woman who sang it and thank her and apologise to her. It was a sequence where Romany was singing a Tori Amos song for a scene and she hated it and had such an awful time doing the scene. So I wasn’t going to torture her and I took it out of the film. Especially for girls in the ‘90s Tori Amos was a huge thing. She was this big figure and I wanted to honour her legacy so I had to thank her in person.
Meg: I liked the song You’ll Never Walk Home Alone and how it played really softly at the end.
Yeah, that was me on my phone. Because the house I was living in when I was filming had a gold piano and when I realised I was about to leave I thought “Oh I need a recording of it before I leave”. And it was just playing it by ear and you’ll hear that all the notes are half wrong but when we played it in the film everyone was like: “that sounds right” even though I assumed we would re-record it.
Meg: It was also cool how he was singing it earlier in the film.
Nicholas: It’s always a bit awkward when someone’s singing to you so we wanted it to be kind of uncomfortable.
Arran: And with Cocytus did you have any games like that growing up?
Well, yeah. I used to walk home with a friend and we’d always be making stuff up about the houses we were passing and all the little areas of suburbia and it always made it more fun. I always imagined things hiding in the shadows. It didn’t have a name like Cocytus. It’s one of the rivers of the Underworld. So if you go into the Greek Underworld it’s one of the rivers you cross. I thought that would be quite fitting because from that moment on you’re not really in the real world.
Arran: With Jonah and Corey were they supposed to be shippy? There were moments in the movie where I thought there might be something between them.
Yeah. That was a big thing for me because I think guys just get so caught up in a fear of their own emotions towards other guys. Many straight men are afraid of being gay. In a way that women aren’t. Girls are way more comfortable within their sexuality.
Arran: I think within society it’s also less taboo.
Without being too explicit I think it’s also the act itself that terrifies them. It’s also an emotional thing with me “gay” and “straight” work better as adjectives than nouns. So that you might be in a gay relationship or have gay feelings towards someone. But you yourself haven’t changed because then you don’t change it’s just your relationship with people. You’ve got straight feelings towards this person and gay feelings towards someone else. I think your generation [2000s- now] are so much more diverse and open to the possibilities of life. Whereas back in the ‘90s I think everyone wanted to categorise themselves a little too quickly.
Arran: Right. So do you think with Corey and Jonah if Corey was more comfortable with his sexuality something would have been explored, or…?
It’s interesting. Originally in the script Jonah was actually very sexually confident and really promiscuous. He was also out and proud and not afraid to use it as a weapon because he knew it made people feel uncomfortable. We ended up cutting that because once Gulliver started playing the role it didn’t quite feel right and sometimes when you cast the role some parts of the character don’t feel right for the actor.
Meg: There was also a surprising strength to him as well.
Yeah, that’s it. It’s a different kind of strength, it certainly isn’t a sexual strength. It’s a strength with personality. It’s very courageous to be the freak. He’s very steely.
Meg: Thank you for your time.
Arran: Yeah, thank you so much.
Boys in the Trees opens nationally on the 20th October 2016
